good evening. you're looking at live pictures from cairo's tahrir square. the in egypt making a dramatic change today. mohamed morsi the president of egypt deposed by the egyptian army. we'll continue to watch developments on that sorry. first, let's go back to the trial of george zimmerman, the second degree murder trial taking place in sanford, pl. we're listening to a prosecution expert being questioned by the defense and he is a forensics expert. let's go back analyst. >> and looking at the back here, there's no cuttings and markings. okay. nothing here that. >> no cuttings that i took from the back. >> great. okay.

>> and i do want to talk with you though briefly about george zimmerman's outside jacket, the orangish red jacket. >> yes. >> without going through all of the samples that were george zimmerman, were there any spots on that outside shirt that were or could have been trayvon martin's? >> on the original jacket? >> yes. >> and let's do this one more time. you can point that out.

the wit may step down. thank you, judge. let's just have you focus on the stain or stains that were or could have trayvon martin's. >> the once i matched that included trayvon martin on? >> that you matched or couldn't exclude. >> okay.

stain e. which i don't believe is on the front. stain n which is on the front located right here on the front right shoulder. that was a mixture. that was the mixture that i was able to resolve a major as well as a minor contributor. the major contributor matched george zimmerman. the minor contributor matched trayvon martin. >> when you say major and minor, are you talking about more from one, more blood from one than the other? >> well, more dna from one than the other. major would be the more dna, minor would be the lesser dna. >> and you still see some of the

staining from n that you talked about on the jacket? >> yes. >> the cutting that you took in the same fashion you had done before was a visible stain that was positive for blood with the filter paper rubbing? >> yes. >> and is representative basically of what you thought you would need to get a reliable dna result? >> yes. >> you didn't test any of the other specific spots? >> the whole stain was rubbed with the filter paper for the blood test. >> right. but as far as the dna testing, these were the two cuttings that i took and put the two. there's one clearly visible and there's actually one on the interface so to speak between the two colors. >> so sort of like stain d? >> yes. >> i think. looking back, you may have chosen to make separate cuttings within the larger stain.

but in this case, the dna results were a combination of both of the cuttings? >> correct. it's possible that one cutting was one, could have been an individual profile on this one but it's possible they both would have been mixtures regardless of whether i tested them separately or together. >> but there's no question in your mind as a an dna analyst that that was a mixed stain ta contained both the dna of george zimmerman and trayvon martin. >> both profiles matched the two individuals. >> anything else on the jacket that relates to that it was trayvon martin's blood or that he was not excluded? >> stain u which is right here if you can see on the bottom of this cut. that's stain v here. but on the bottom is stain u.

that was also a mixture. >> the right cuff, am i correct? >> that is the right cuff. that was also a mixture of dna that have a von martin was included as a possible contributor. and i did not make any determinations on george zimmerman to that specific stain. >> same sort of technique, you rubbed. >> yes. >> and then made cuttings? >> yes. >> stain v which is right next to stain u -- that one was too limited to are me to be able to make a match. however, i was not able to exclude either of the two individuals. >> v could, from the limited information you have, could have been trayvon martin. you couldn't say it wasn't, but you can't say it was? >> correct. >> v is represented by this

larger circle with the three separate cuttings? >> yes, that's it for the front. >> okay. may we just flip -- now we are looking at the back of the jacket in exhibit 151. and there were two on the back. i was not able to make a determinationing if, trayvon martin was present. >> excuse me a moment. thank you. all right. thank you. go ahead. >> stain e which is right up here on the back of the right shoulder, the right-hand shoulder with the two cuttings. that one was a mixture where i was able to resolve a major. i mapped that complete major tore george zimmerman and i was not able to make a determination

or exclude trayvon martin. and then the last one was stain bb. which is also here. in between the two colors. that one was also a mixture that george zimmerman was included in that mixture and i was not able to make a determination on trayvon martin or exclude him. >> okay. is that it? >> that was it. >> we'll put this back. you may take your seat, please. thanks. >> okay. we'll go back to the george zimmerman trial in a moment. but first, we're following breaking news out of egypt where president mohamed morsi has been overthrown. we're going to talk with former assistant secretary of state for public affairs p.j. crowley. react to these extraordinary developments today. it was just in 2011 when we saw scenes similar to this, the arab

spring, the overthrow of a who-plus year dictatorship replaced with an elected government. now that government has fallen. >> i don't think we should be surprised that in egypt's advance 0 democracy, that it was never going to be a straight line. we've seen mistakes made. we've seen the fact that you have a duly elected leader but not one who is necessarily governing democratically or certainly not governing inclusively. so we know that democracy is about more than just elections and that building the institutions of democracy, the traditions of democracy will take years if not decades. >> p.j., do you think it's wise for the obama administration to hang back and let this play out before making any statements? >> well, even back in 2011, we recognized that the events were going to unfold in egypt.

decisions made by egyptians of the united states would have influence only in the margins. we're in the same circumstance now. obviously, the administration faces a difficult decision in terms of how to interpret what's happened. we have laws that govern the assistance that we provide, you know, to the egyptian government as a tradition, if governments overthrow democratically elected governments, there are implications but there's some flexibility here if these events move egypt forward towards a deeper, a more inclusive democracy, i think the administration may interpret events one way. obviously if the military takes over, and it has the trappings of an autocratic state even for a temporary period of time, taal have different implications. >> does it help in the case of egypt, the u.s. has long-standing ties to the military, knows its leaders very well?

we had one point sent 6 billion to egypt much of that military aid. is it helpful the ties we have are with the institution that has essentially taken down the democratically elected government? >> no question. not only ties to the military which will be making some key decisions here but also ties to opposition figures, and this is crucially important. in the past we've seen that the morsi government did some things right, a lot of things wrong. so in the last two years, the opposition has been splinter ineffective. you know, this, this amazing picture that we're watching, these people know what they're against. they don't necessarily entirely agree about what they're for. and so the opposition will have to come together and create a unified vision for egypt and participate in the process that carries us forward. the muslim brotherhood will have a challenging this vision 0

make. obviously they're disappointed with the events of today but they still have a right to be part of the process moving forward hopefully learning lessons from the past year. >> and i want to bring in two-time pulitzer prize winner david rowe, a columnist for reuters, formerly of "the new york times." thanks for being here. >> thank you. >> i want to ask you about that opposition. earlier ayman mohyeldin talked about the opposition and the sort of tableau that was created by the military leaders when he this he announced the change in government. they had leaders from youth movements, from secular and religious movements and also had mohamed elbaradei who most people remember from the united nations during the run up to the war in iraq and his pronouncements whether or not the government saddam hussein had weapons ef mass destruction. he's a known international figure. is he somebody that you could anticipate may actually have a leadership role in a future egyptian government? >> he could, but the problem is that this oppositioning in

elbaradei himself is not overwhelmingly popular. there is a large contingent of egyptian society that supports the mut lim brotherhood. in the short term it might stabilize the situation but in the long-term this could lead to more violence and the radicalization of muslim brotherhood entiresupporters. on the side of the break, richard engel will give us an update. yes, please. of course. a rich, never bitter taste cup after cup. 340 grams. [ sighs ] [ male announcer ] always rich, never bitter. gevalia. the ones getting involved and staying engaged. they're not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is "how did i end up here?" i started schwab for those people.

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continuing to keep our eyes on both the george zimmerman second degree murder trial and developments in egypt. still with us is, two-time pulitzer prize winner david road formerly of "the new york times." david, give us a sense of how the u.s. diplomatically now would deal with morsi. he was democratically elected. has now been ousted. we're not clear of his location. but assuming he is safely in the country, is it a situation where the u.s. would want him to

leave? would allow him to stay? how do we do that diplomatic dance. >> it's going to be extremely difficult. most supporters of the muslim brotherhood and even across the middle east will see this as an american backed coup. whatever really happened, they will think the u.s. somehow with their ties you were talking about earlier with the u.s. military, they'll think the u.s. somehow gave this green light and that you know, this is the first democratically elected president of egypt, an islamist who says he also believes in democracy has been ousted. it plays into this view of american hypocrisy that we support democracy at home but don't support it abroad. i'm not defending morsi. he's done a terrible job governing egypt. but there is a problem here in terms of our consistency towards supporting democracy. >> is there any way to craft a statement out of the white house that both respects the will of the people of egypt which is clearly as you can see from the pictures from tahrir square, people are elated at this change

of government. this is regime change that they waned. that is a part of the democratic process, the consent of the governed. is will there a way to craft a statement that doesn't seem hypocritical because this was a democratic government that was ousted? >> the united states has to push for elections as quickly as possible. you know, morsi had become very unpopular you know, one immediate question is, is mohammed morsi going to be allowed to run in the new elections? will the muslim brotherhood be allowed to put up another candidate. i think they should. it would be much more effective if they had been forced from power in an election. the sooner an election can be held and the will of the people can be seen, the better. this is a enormous country. but there's a very large number of egyptians particularly in rural areas that do support the brotherhood. i just fear more polarization and more violence potential will i. >> in a way what you're describing is a lot like iran where you have people in the

countryside who support the islamic government, the more religious government and a secular element in the country. but in egypt, there's this other irony i want to ask you about. the military who the u.s. obviously has more contact with, is the elite. let's face it, in egyptian society. part of the problem that people apparently had with morsi was this sense that the economy was not working for the average person, high unemployment, food lines, people not being able to make it economically and the sense he wasn't doing much about it. is there any irony that essentially the people have turned to their own elite to change the government? >> it is. this is one of the fears that these protesters now celebrating so joyously might you know, the military might turn out to be not as sort of generous in terms of democracy and freedom of speech and all the things weigh talk talking about. the, that's a great question you've asked and it's absolutely true. there is an epic struggle going on between these liberal urban populations in iran and egypt and tunisia and turkey in the

taksim square protests and more conservative sort of rural islamists. the key is to let these twos groups fight it out if possible at the ballot box. reach compromise. it's been too polarized in egypt and hard tort u.s. to end ta dynamic. i just think it's very -- it sounds ideaistic but the answer is sort of bad democracy is more democracy, not coups and there has to be i hope a resolution somehow democratically to this power struggle in egypt. >> david, thank you. we're going to take a quick break. we have more on developments in egypt and updates on the skimmer pan trial. [ moaning ]

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toppled by the military there. we now have dennis ross, a former u.s. diplomat under the first president bush and under president clinton and a former advisor to secretary of state the clinton. what would are be your advice at this moment? what would you be telling john kerry in the situation we're seeing now? >> i think the key thing for us is to focus on principles and not personalities. i think the -- we have a huge stake in egypt not being a failed state. we have a huge stake in trying to see if there can be a managed transition now. we also have a stake in changing the impression that seems to exist among a great part of egyptian public that somehow we were backing the muslim brotherhood against the interests of the egyptian public which i think is not what the real position of the administration was, about you it was a perception that took hold. so i think right now, our focus should be very much on empath e empathizing the need to create a stable political transition and

our support for basic principles which relate to respecting the rights of all, insuring nonviolence, making sure that elections can be held at an appropriate time. creating an inclusiveness which is i think the greatest single failure of the muslim brotherhood and president morsi was that they made no effort to reach out and include others. they focused on control and they didn't focus on governance. >> ambassador ross, is it important what becomes of mohamed morsi? is it important that he be allowed to freely participate in any future elections or do you think that it's important that the u.s. find a way for him to be escorted out of egypt? what do you think about that? >> well, i think the latter may be important because i think right now, if anything, and this may sound quite ironic, i suspect that military -- yes, i think that the military may be protecting more morsi as much as

anything. given the mood of the crowds, i think that right now that president morsi himself probably doesn't want to be exposed a great deal. so it may be escorting him is as good as anything. i do think if there's going to be elections there should be a sense that everyone -- there should be an inclusive approach to elections not an exclusive approach to elections. >> i'll ask you one more question, ambassador ross. how confident are you in the mirt's claims and their promises to uphold democratic institutions to hold elections, to return to civilian governance hastily? >> i actually think that they are quite committed to that because i don't think as an institution they want to be responsible for managing the egyptian economy right now, given all the challenges. you know, if you look at what general el sisi has been saying for some time, he kept saying that we need to see a dialogue

on the inside. you know, the military will only intervene if necessary. the military doesn't want to intervene. we want to prevent the black tunnel from being entered into. this is not something that they entered into with any great eagerness. i think they felt there was a real danger that the country was going to collapse if in fact they didn't intervene. and president morsi didn't take seriously some of the warnings that were being made. i actually think that the military at this point will probably go to some length to try to demonstrate that all corners of the public should be involved in this. there should be a kind of institutional approach, new constitution being drafted and elections held as soon as they can be held and in an environment that makes them possible to be held in a way that's both stable and free and fair. >> we certainly hope so. nbc's chief correspondent richard engel joins us now live from the cairo from tahrir square. this must feel like deja vu all

over again. i still remember you standing in quite the same position back income 2011. the arab spring, the toppling of the dictatorship then. does it feel like the same energy, the same demands and the same elation that took place then? >> there are similarities. the crowds are about the same. what's different this time back then, the crowds were mostly just here in tahrir square. now, you have crowds here tahrir square. a similar not quite as large but similar gathering in front of the palace. you can't see it, behind this building, also crowds in the streets. so if anything, it seems like maybe even more people in cairo are celebrating. back in the mubarak days, it was somewhat more emotional because he had been in power for 30 years. a lot of people were never sure if that moment would come. many moore people had died for that revolution. hundreds of people had died.

the square had been attacked. someone is doing circles with a motorcycle in the square, if you hear that buzzing. i'll keep talking and hopefully you can understand me. this time it was peaceful. it was quick. you didn't have the body count. so there is just a sense of happiness. it's not tinged with the memories of the martyrs in tahrir square at two and a half years ago. there were a lot of posters of people who died for this revolution. there was a violent incident overnight. the real question is will this be as good as it gets? will violence follow this? how will morsi supporter reez act? how will the people who didn't win out tonight and who now feel disenfranchised? will they become an insurgency. i worry about what happened in algeria in 1992. there was an election.

the islamists won and the military canceled the election and then you had a civil war with more than 100,000 people dead. it doesn't seem like they're heading in that direction but you could have an insurgency in this country that goes back underground that could cause a lot of problems for this country. >> clearly you make an excellent point. isn't it going to be important now the protection of the muslim brotherhood and their supporters and of mohamed morsi because should violence come to them, the nightmare scenario you just talked about could indeed take place? >> it wouldn't just be about people here attacking the muslim brotherhood. they feel this has been an affront not to just president morsi but that this is an international conspiracy against islam and against political islam. and therefore, you are tapping into a well of, a very deep well of passions and it wouldn't take much to inflame them. i think the places immediately to watch would be the sinai.

the sinai has become somewhat overrun by islamic radicals. if they fear that the egyptian military is more solidly in control and they could be attacked, could you see them becoming more aggressive. you could see areas of traditional hard-core islamic militant groups in towns like minnia and asute that suddenly become violent again. the hammer will have to negotiate this carefully and if you were just suggesting the army or vigilantes suddenly go on a campaign to crack down on everyone in power before, then the country will become much more divided. >> i want to bring in rob wright, a senior fellow at the woodrow wilson international center for scholars. richard engel in 2007, one of the other iconic images i remember was him standing in tahrir square and people chanting the army and the people are one. people putting flowers into the turrets of weapons and feeling a

sense of bond and trust with the military. do you get the sense now that that trust is deserved, that that trust is earned? that we in the united states and that the people in egypt, those people demonstrating in cairo could trust the military to turn power over to the government? >> this is a very controversial point. the military was in power for 17 months after ousting president mubarak. it became very controversial and there were protests on the streets and at tahrir square demanding that the military hand over power. it became extraordinarily controversial and so the military has to ensure that this time around, that there is a vast transition fa it doesn't seem to be wanting to hold on to power. remember, all of the presidents since the monarchy ended in the 1950s, have been former leaders within the military. there has been a fear within egypt that the military, the old regime is trying to wiggle its way back into power through the

military. and so the challenge for the supreme council of the armed forces as it's called will be to make sure that it is seen as just a very temporary transition and not something that's trying to take over power again. >> richard, can you respond to that point, as well? because indeed, trust this military is paramount for this to work. people have to believe that the military means what it says. you get aence sense from the people you're talking to there that they don't expect to have to return to the streets again as they did before and try to get the military to move out of power? >>. >> do we have richard? >> i'm not sure. can you hear me? >> yes. >> okay. then i was saying i think there's a couple of different ways of looking at this. the people here in tahrir square see this as a call that was issued to the military. the military responded. and they are trusting the military to be a custodian for a

transitional period. by the way, the military didn't just announce this alone. there were members of civil society present with the military. nobel laureate, mohamed baradei was supporting of this announcement. members of the clergy both muslim and christian were supportive of this announcement. that's the way it's seen here. on the other side of town, the muslim brotherhood supporters see this as an opportunity that the military used to carry out a coup against them. to carry out a vendetta if you will against its old enemy the muslim brotherhood. probably both of these are a little bit true. people here certainly did ask the military to intervene and now the military has intervened and they are trusting the military to have a transition. and the military has never liked the muslim brotherhood and was apparently always looking to some sort of opportunity to sideline them. not necessarily come back to

power. but the muslim brotherhood didn't like the military didn't like what the muslim brotherhood was doing. many of the brotherhood's supporters, their sons and cousins and family members were signing up for the military. the muslim brotherhood was trying to take over the rank and file. the replace many of the mid level commanders both in the earl and the interior ministry and the army felt if this continues in three years, the institution of the armed forces which is largely secular would be eroded. so i think both are somewhat true. there was a call that was responded to. and the muslim -- and the army saw the an opportunity to stop the muslim brotherhood before it got more deeply rooted in the society. >> richard engel proving why he is the best in the business. robin wright, thank you both. i want to bring in jonathan alter, author of a new book about president obama and his enemies looking at sort of his dealing with his adversaries here in the united states. but in the situation that we're facing now, looking at those

pictures in tahrir square, how does the president navigate this based on his history and what you've learned in putting your book together? is this a president who can come out and nab gate that sort of careful strait before between supporting democracy and the people on the street? >> it's a very difficult situation. we have a very experienced diplomat ambassador ann patterson and you could argue even she has kind of fumbled the ball a little bit because we were not able to be give the protesters, give the opposition the sense that if we weren't on their side, we at least were consulting with them enough and hearing them enough and they perceived that we were too much in bed with morsi. so he's going to having to show very quick little that he is in support of this change. >> jonathan alter, thank you very much. coming up, we'll join "hardball"

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. welcome back to "hardball." we continue to watch the celebrations actually in cairo. look at them right now. live after the military ousted egypt's elected government over there. we'll have more on that in just a minute. first the latest in the jorm zimmerman case with lis za bloom and right now joseph hanes davis a criminal defense attorney in florida. mr. davis, i've got get to you because i know you have to leave. let me give you something you haven't been asked. this is what i love to do on this show. by the way, i'm surrounded by people who think he's guilty, all my dpaem, my liberal sons, my wife, everybody thinks zimmerman is the bad guy. i have some other people that

have different views too. >> i understand. >> my question to you, it's a really scary one. imagine somebody was ten feet away from this horror that happened that night in the san anford and took a crystal clear picture of everything that happened. everything that happened from the time these two guys met, however he came out of the bushes, walked toward him, didn't walk toward him, everything including what looked to be a fight that ended in a wrestling match with a gun going off. i still people would have different verdicts. and the reason i say that, i'm asking you i should say that is because people talk about the surrounding context. they talk about the fact he shouldn't have gotten out of his car before the encounter occurred. he shouldn't have had this police mentality going on. he wasn't a cop, and all that and they say that's what matters. and not what happened in the scuffle. my question to you, is that a problem we have here, even the facts aren't going to clear this case? >> it might be. but chris, it's my understanding that some of the jurors up to

four of them are familiar with, quote unquote, guns. it has been reported. and as a result, i believe that the fact that he left the car in light of something suspicious for me is telling. now, again, ethically because i'm a member of the bar and it's a case in front of a court that i practice in front of periodically, i'm not going to sit here and make a prediction or do anything unethical on the chris matthews show. i can say as a concealed weapons holder, when you see trouble, you report it. and you walk away. and you stay within your safe zones. that's how we are trained. that's how we think. >> is the penalty for that murder two? >> it quite possibly can be depending on a sequestered jury panel. >> okay. thank you for joining us. we'll get back to you next time we get hold of you. he practices down there. let me go to lisa bloom. i remember you saying the other night, i'm always looking for controversy here. i heard you say the only thing that matters in this case is not

the box it came in, not all the racial history, the 450 years of bad history and all kinds of questions about police and our system and not the question whether this guy thought he was a cop or possible vigilanteism. what happened when these two guys met and who ended up feeling they were in danger of injury and therefore, drew the gun and used it? >> i think what i said was the legal question is at the moment that george zimmerman took the life of this teenager, was he reasonably in fear of great podly injury or death. that's the legal standard. that's such a difficult question to answer because you do have to take into account the entire condition text. here's a piece of evidence in this case. >> why do you have to take it in context? you're saying it differently this time. you've changed the way you're saying it. >> i don't think i'm saying it differently. >> why is it, if you said the question is his mind-set. was he danger he thought of great bodily injury or death.

if he thought that at the time. >> reasonably fear. >> if he's right in his testimony, if he's right, his head was being pounded into the sidewalk. if it's true, was he within his rights to make that judgment? >> okay, but the prosecution says his injuries weren't that bad. maybe his head was pounded once. maybe he got punched once. >> how many times would you let your head be pounded if it's true. >> you capital take out a gun and shoot and kill someone. >> fets true, how many times would you let your head be pounded into the cement if it happened that way? two, three? >> but look, i wouldn't summa african-american kid walking around in my neighborhood is up to no good and follow him against the advice of police. >> sure. but you're the lawyer. what is the criminal charge here, murder two. what has that got to do with his mind-set ten minutes before? what's the mind-set ten minutes before have do with it. >> it has a lot to do with it

because a finding of murder two is a finding he intentionally took this life with a depraved mind. can i tell you about this piece of evidence that nobody's talking about that i think is important? george zimmerman had a bluff from the lead investigator who said we have a videotape of this incident. turns out there is no videotape of the incident but zimmerman responded with elation. he was so hopeful. he said, oh, i'm so glad. i hope there is a videotape. he pointed out some video cameras in the community he hoped would lead them to a videotape. does that tell you something? >> what's it tell you? >> that he thinks that his story is true. whether it's true or not, when he says trayvon martin was on top attacking him and assaulting him, he was very -- either he was very hopeful there was a tape or he's an extremely good actor. >> if the tape did tell the story that he told, would he be innocent? >> if he was getting his head pounded, and he was getting pudged in the face and as he says, trayvon martin threatened

to kill him and reached for the gun, clearly that would be a self-defense acquittal verdict. >> lisa bloom, thank you for joining us again. thanks for joining us. when we return, millions of egyptians are celebrating at this minute. the ouster of the country's islamist president, the one they elected. what does the military coup mean for our own country? u.s. interests here. united states. how are we doing in this thing? looks like we have nothing to do with it. this is "hardball," the place for politics. things more secure. [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there. call us. we can show you how at&t solutions can help you do what you do... even better. ♪

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>> the state department is warning u.s. citizens now living in egypt right in that country to leave the country at this time. immediately in other words, because of the continuing political and clearly social unrest after today's military coup. the state department is also warning u.s. citizens to put off ralph to egypt at this time. there goes the tourist business. we'll get back to the incredible demonstrations in cairo in a moment. "hardball" back in a moment. with the spark miles card from capital one, bjorn earns unlimited rewards for his small business. take these bags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjorn's small business earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth ] why settle for less?

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of political events today-in cairo. mohammed morsi is out. he was ousted by the military of that country. the constitution there has been dissolved. joining me on the phone from cairo is "time" magazine correspondent who has been on the ground both at the square and at today's muslim brotherhood rally. . and also joining us tonight, former state department egypt desk officer joe ruben. i want to get to mr. calio over there. it looks to me that the united states might be a little better off in the short run because we now have a government run by the military which seems to be a stabilizing force against a government that looks like it was moving more and more islamists and therefore at some point, anti-american. how do you read it? >> well, it's hard to read where u.s. interests lie on this current situation. you do certainly have the end of the muslim brotherhood leadership.

although it was never overtly anti-american. you had the military, which is now in charge has strong ties to the americans, but the muslim brothers played nicely with washington, they said the right thing about israel, didn't cause any waves. so they weren't anti-american or anti-american interests. the incoming government, whatever form it takes will probably be less threatening to american citizens and that's a good thing. but there is also a precedent that has been set here with an elected president being ousted for bad politics, essentially, after one year, that might cause a problem in the u.s. in terms of stability. because if whoever is the next president, you can bet the muslim brotherhood will be out there screaming for his head and causing instability. it's hard to tell. it's a mixed bag from the u.s. perspective. >> you know, after years of listening to the bbc on radio when i was in the peace corps, i always said conditions are

stable in tsomewhere. old powers like us like stability. what are the chances we're going to get stability in that country. tourism will come back, the economy will pick up and less chance of the country getting radicalized after this. >> well, chris, stability's what egyptian people are calling for. and i think as he points out, the last year, the last two years, in fact, have been very destabilizing for egyptian politics and egyptian people. but they did also come out of three decades of, quote, stability which clearly was a facade. so they're going to need to be inclusive. this process has to be different from the last one where the government was led by the military then the muslim brotherhood took over and really ran over the rest of the players in cairo. it needs to be more inclusive. and we saw today in the press conference when the announcement was made of this takeover the

broad swath of egyptian society offered. nonetheless, the brotherhood, they've been in this battle and this type of battle before, decades of it against mubarak and the egyptian military. so they do have a vote and a voice. it's essential that in the days ahead that those in the brotherhood who are not necessarily behind morsi but can be engaged are engaged and not made to be outside of this upcoming political process. >> okay. the problem -- the good thing about military coups, they settle things down the short run, the bad thing, they know nothing about politics or democracy. can this military government that's taken over today find a way to infuse itself with the democratic voices of the various elements of egyptian society? >> well, if they're going to do that, they're going to have to learn the lessons from the last time they ran the country, which was just a year ago. there's definitely -- keep in mind, the 15 months after hosni

mubarak was pushed from the stage by the original revolution, we were run under the military, under the supreme council of the armed forces. and it was kind of a disaster for all parties. they were unpopular, they were repressive, very thin-skinned. they seemed to hate being hated like that. they weren't used to being in the position where people were chanting against them. they really, really didn't like it. and so that's why there's a strong possibility they'll try to do it differently this time. in the announcement by the defense minister, it was a very different tone that when the military was running the country after mubarak. it wasn't just some press conference with the general sort of waving the finger at the camera, which happened a lot in that first year after mubarak. this was very inclusive. you had the pope, you had the head -- they tried to present a broad inclusive picture. the hope is they've learned their lesson from their last very recent and very disastrous attempt to run the country. >> great thinking and great

reporting, i think it's fascinating. we have a military in this part of the world that wants to be popular, it knows the mistakes of the past. this may be a good sign for a future stability in egypt tonight. we'll be right back after this. . it's been that way since the day you met. but your erectile dysfunction - it could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than 4 hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives,

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let me finish tonight with this. the u.s. policy in the arab world tonight is up in the air. we used to be able to count on our allies in the region, egypt,

jordan and the moderate palestinia palestinians, we used to count on countries that were rejectionists but no strategic threat to our ally israel, being iraq and syria, well, today we face question marks in all those countries if not now, at some point in the very near future. the challenge from iran remains, of course, as it has for a while. the question now is for us and it is a huge one is how to settle down a region that seems increasingly prone to blowing its top. president obama, secretary of state kerry, and the rest of the american team i assume are giving this one all they've got. and that's "hardball" for now, thanks for being with us, have a safe and happy fourth of july. "politics nation" with al sharpton starts right now. thanks, chris, and thanks to you for tuning in. we are live tonight from a free health care clinic in new orleans. we've been here all day